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Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

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    Originally posted by Cowboys_Place View Post
    I have read this thread in each and every post with great interest for like everyone else with SCI I am sick and tired of being sick and tired From UTI's.
    Well said. I know as someone who voids on my own, it's frowned upon by some here (mainly the nurses), but using catheters aren't exactly much safer in preventing UTIs, at least not for me. I don't know if the body develops a tolerance for cathing or not, but I know that almost every time I've been cathed, it's irritated my bladder and/or caused infection. For some reason, cathing is like directly infecting my bladder, which is why it scares the shit out of me.

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      Gimp's log stardate 2010.0705:

      two microcyn flushes of 20cc were done today for 5 min each time. an aberration occurred in that 30 min wait time between the cath and the flush. regular schedule will return tomorrow.

      no noticeable change in urine cloudiness or smell despite two days of flushing. this experience contradicts those of others. individual results may vary

      noticed distinct bleach-like odor of the urine outputted which can mask the urine smell. compared smell of initial output, to output after flushing to clorox cleanup cleanser with bleach (fresh scent). output after flushing anf clorox smelt similar but clorox had stronger scent. initial output smelt like infected urine. same discomfort from air getting into the bladder was felt however excess air is being "burped" out in caths throughout the day. tester is amused.

      photos still need to be cropped and uploaded.
      "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
      http://www.elportavoz.com/

      Comment


        Wait! You put literal bleach into your bladder? Is that safe? Wouldn't that burn your tissues?

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          Il faut lire correctement LTF, she is just comparing the smell to bleach, not using it!
          Pharmacist, C4-5 injury but functional C6 (no triceps/flexors)

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            Originally posted by Le Type Fran├žais View Post
            Wait! You put literal bleach into your bladder? Is that safe? Wouldn't that burn your tissues?
            no i just sniffed it to compare how strong the scent was to the microcyn.

            Gimp's log stardate 2010.0805:

            last night noticed pink mucous discharge from mitro stoma. stoma appeared to be intact with no sores and the inside was bright pink as per usual. clothing was not a factor as tester was wearing a purple hoodie.

            extremely small speck of red was seen on mucous in urine during the am cath. possible correlation to the pink mucous of previous night. may be residual of possible nicking from the first flush.

            no perceivable change in cloudiness of urine. same 20cc flush was used and sat for 5 min while massaging bladder. tester remains amused at the burrping bladder.
            "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
            http://www.elportavoz.com/

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              LTF- If you have not been instructed by a trained health care professional you should not ever attempt to catheterize yourself. Period. It's not rocket science, but you do have to have the basic skills.

              CG--If you have been colonized for awhile, your bladder wall may well be inflamed to some extent. This makes for easy nicking. Plus, you are probably not going to get the job done because your not getting enough Mic into your bladder for your level of colonization/infection. You're probably not even getting 20 cc in there, judging from the amount of air you're reporting.
              I'm back on Facebook again--up and running!

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                Originally posted by Leila View Post
                LTF- If you have not been instructed by a trained health care professional you should not ever attempt to catheterize yourself. Period. It's not rocket science, but you do have to have the basic skills.

                CG--If you have been colonized for awhile, your bladder wall may well be inflamed to some extent. This makes for easy nicking. Plus, you are probably not going to get the job done because your not getting enough Mic into your bladder for your level of colonization/infection. You're probably not even getting 20 cc in there, judging from the amount of air you're reporting.
                all 20cc is going in. if it werent, i'd see it in the catheter and report it. the amount of air being put in is the air used to get all 20cc. i am just going by the protocol that you and the dr suggested. 20cc should be enough given the claims that you and others have stated. please read my first test post on why my bladder got nicked. (it isnt hard to do and i've done it before) quite frankly, microcyn is horribly expensive and as a person on a fixed income it isnt practical. so far, your claims have been refuted by my testing using the suggested protocol. i will continue until the 2 bottles purchased are empty and make any final conclusions/judgements at that time.
                "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
                http://www.elportavoz.com/

                Comment


                  The protocol I posted is 60 cc. Those using 20cc successfully are probably not at the same level of colonization/infection that you are.

                  At first, we could not afford the Mic either--but we worked it out over time. It all depends on your priorities.
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                    Originally posted by Leila View Post
                    If the males who self-cath get their preventative technique right, they probably won't have to flush the bladder very often. That was Bob's original idea--keep the microbes out of the urethra and they can't get into the bladder. John flushed the bladder a couple of times about eight months ago, after he had come off his last course of Cipro. He did that just to be sure there were no microbes left hanging around that the Cipro didn't wipe out. Then he began rinsing the urethra with Mic before each cath. First he did the whole urethra, even the prostatic section, a couple of times. Just to be sure. Then he did the penile urethra each time--paying close attention to that bottle neck spot just before the external sphicter (I think they call it the membranous urethra). That area is really tight for John. Then he just kept rinsing the penile urethra before each cath for awhile, but decided that he was wasting Mic, so now he just rinses the penile urethra morning and evening. The rest of the time he just does the distal urethra--that one to two inch part right near the meatus. He hasn't done a bladder flush in nearly eight months because there's just no way any microbes can get up there--no way at all. He's completely clean all the time.
                    How does he flush the urethra? Does he insert the catheter halfway and then push the microcyn into the urethra?

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                      He made a little rinsing tool--the one Bob wrote about. He just cut about a six inch piece off the top of a catheter, 14 fr, and then stuck it on the end of a 10 ml syringe. I asked him yesterday to show me exactly the amount he draws up, and it is only about 5 cc--so he's not using a lot to rinse like Bob does with the H2O2. He is just coating the urethra with the Mic.
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                        Originally posted by Leila View Post
                        At first, we could not afford the Mic either--but we worked it out over time. It all depends on your priorities.
                        kind of rude statement. but i wont take it personally. i am guessing u dont live off of $250 dollars/mo like i do, so please dont try to imply that i do not have my priorities straight. money makes the world go round and those with money can afford specialized treatments/alternative choices.
                        "Smells like death in a bucket of chicken!"
                        http://www.elportavoz.com/

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                          CG--It wasn't meant to be rude. For us, it has been completely true. We live off an income considerably below the poverty line. I do not have any medical isurance at all. John has Medicare/Medi-Cal, because he's over 65. When we first started buying the Mic, I used my credit cards, and went into debt. Then I began to network and find ways to compensate the cost of the Mic, which for us is $84 per month. First I went to PG&E and got a Medical Baseline Allowance application and John took it to his urologist at the veteran's clinic. She signed it on the basis that John will be catheterizing for the rest of his life, and has to use extra electricity for a space heater to heat the bathroom and all the extra hot water to cleanse everthing when he caths (which is every three to four hours, round the clock). PG&E approved the application and our bills dropped dramatically. Also, we went in to see his Medi-Cal worker and she said if John supplied receipts every month for an out-of-pocket medical expense, she would be able to qualify us for foodstamp benefits. We supplied the receipts and she supplied $60 per month in foodstamps. So we fully compensated for the cost of the Microcyn. Took some time and some effort, but we did it.

                          Lazlo--John actually has two different sizes of irrigator tools--one is longer and goes all the way up to the internal sphincter, but he doesn't use that anymore. The other is long enough to go up to the external sphincter, about seven inches for him. It's different for each male. He only uses it now twice a day, as I mentioned. The rest of the time he just holds his penis up, opens up the meatus, and pours in some Mic--counts to 45 (the kill time is 30 seconds) and then caths. He does, of course, maintain rigorous standards of cleanliness during each cath.
                          I'm back on Facebook again--up and running!

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                            Originally posted by Leila View Post
                            LTF- If you have not been instructed by a trained health care professional you should not ever attempt to catheterize yourself. Period. It's not rocket science, but you do have to have the basic skills.
                            Duly noted. I won't do anything dangerous without input and instruction. I promise. I'm usually very cautious about things pertaining to my body.

                            Comment


                              Lazlo, this is more thinking out loud than anything, but my first thought about how to irrigate is to cut the desired length of catheter and turn it into a sprinkler by using a sterile upholstery needle (the long, thick ones) to poke holes along the length of it. Gently pulling back and reinserting the modified cath as you push the solution with the syringe should effectively, in theory at least, distribute the Microcyn/Vetericyn along the length of the urethra.
                              It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.

                              ~Julius Caesar

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                                Originally posted by crypticgimp View Post
                                kind of rude statement. but i wont take it personally. i am guessing u dont live off of $250 dollars/mo like i do, so please dont try to imply that i do not have my priorities straight. money makes the world go round and those with money can afford specialized treatments/alternative choices.
                                I don't think she intended to sound rude, but pragmatic. In reality, her statement is meant for all of us. We all spend our money based on a priority scale of our own. There are a fortunate few who don't have to worry about that scale as much, but we all have that scale to deal with to some extent if we aren't wealthy.

                                Consider this example: Someone who smokes is also SCIed and prone to UTI infection. They can make a decision to try and quit the smoking and buy the Microcyn instead and see if that helps them stave off infections. In this scenario, they'd be kicking a habit that damages their health and with the money they save not buying cigarettes, they can buy Microcyn.

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