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Microcyn Bladder Treatment (An Open Letter to Dr. Young)

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    Vetericyn, Puracyn, Microcyn, and a product called Dermacyn are all basically the same formulation. Vetericyn VF (Veterinarian Formula) is about twice the strength of regular Vetericyn and the others mentioned.

    All the best,
    GJ

    Comment


      Interesting. Maybe that's it - because I think I may have one now. I'll try diluting it.

      Comment


        Right now I have a pretty severe bladder infection And I'm taking Bactrim and macrobid, I do have the regular vetericyn and I was wondering if that would interfere with the antibiotics. Have a rare type of Pseudomonas and the pain (very sharp needle like, burning cramps) I've been on the antibiotics for about a week and a half. Should I do just the full strength or dilute it? How long do I leave it in? I do have a suprapubic which makes it easier
        C4 incomplete since 1985

        Comment


          You can start Vetericyn while taking antibiotics. Leila has spoken about her husband's success with using Vetericyn to cure a urinary tract infection. He has used 60cc of Vetericyn VF instilled every 3-4 hours round the clock until the urine is clear, odor free, and he is symptom free. That is a lot of Vetericyn VF and a lot of dedication.

          I don't know how you have used Vetericyn before, but you might try instilling an amount you have tried in the past and retain it for about 5 minutes. Remember, you need to use enough Vetericyn to cover all the bladder walls and nooks and crannies. Also, check the expiry date on your bottle of Vetericyn. If it is stale dated, it won't be of any use to you. Vetricyn/Microcyn/Puracyn are best used regularly for the full prophylactic benefit.

          All the best,
          GJ

          Comment


            I had posted on this board about 3 years ago regarding vetericyn.
            This was my last post from November 5, 2010:

            We started to use the M/V about 3 weeks ago.

            At first I started by instilling 30cc of Microcyn for about 3 minutes. Over the next week then, I increased the volume to 60cc, leaving it in the bladder for ½ hour, since we didn’t get results. However, after about a week, Frank's bowels wouldn't move on their own anymore. We had to give him Fleet enemas in order for him to have a BM. Also, he wouldn't urinate as often anymore. Usually during the night he'd go at least one time. After about one week on the M/V he wouldn't void for 12 hours.
            So, I know that the M/V does something to the bowels.
            I had gotten an email from Dr. Bongiovanni, telling me that I should use about 100-150cc of the Microcyn and only leave it in for about 1 minute. Her theory is that increased volume allows the M to get into all of the nooks and folds and so killing the microbes and that the Microcyn kills whatever it touches within that minute and anything beyond that time isn't necessary.
            So, Bob's theory is right (I was thinking the same), if the M/V doesn't get in contact with everything that is infected it can't kill it. Hence the suggestion from Dr. Bongiovanni to increase the volume of the Microcyn makes sense. The only draw-back is the cost of the M.
            In our case, even 150cc of the Vetericyn double strength was not enough to kill everything within a minute. The last couple of days we left 150cc in for about one hour. His urine definitely did improve; however, we encountered the above mentioned problems.

            So, we stopped the M/V about a week ago and started him on Mandelamine. His urine is clear (not crystal); some days it is a little less clear. His bowels are back to normal now.
            Since Frank has a strain of Klebsiella that is resistant to all antibiotics (only one IV antibiotic seems to be effective and that requires hospitalization), I will continue with the Mandelamine for right now.
            If I ever get into a lot of money, I would like to try the M/V in higher volumes (maybe 200-300cc instilled at one time) at the time frame suggested by Dr. Bongiovanni.
            Good luck to everybody else.
            Well, I started the vetericyn installations again about 3 1/2 weeks ago. Started with 60cc regular V for 5 minutes once a day gradually increasing to 60cc regular V for 20 minutes twice a day. We haven't experienced the bowel problems he had back then this time around; however, we are having the same issue with the fluid retention. At first I thought maybe that he is holding it in the bladder; so I cath him, but only get out 300 - 400cc. We have noticed extra fluid in his feet and legs. I have also noticed white floaters in his urine for the last 2 weeks.
            I have reread the whole thread (took me 3 days), but don't remember reading anything about fluid retention in combination with vetericyn.
            Any input would be greatly appreciated.
            Thanks,

            Comment


              I agree with you. I have not read anything about fluid retention as a side effect of using Vetericyn VF, Vetericyn, Microcyn, or Puracyn. For that matter, I have not read about constipation as a side effect either, until your post. Diarrhea has been discussed quite a bit.

              Maybe you don't need to use so much Vetericyn or retain it for so long. You might try diluting Vetericyn with saline, something like 2 parts Vetericyn and 1 part saline and retain for 5-10 minutes and see if that changes anything while maintaining the preventative effects. You might not want to change everything at one time. Start with diluting and see how that does or cut back on time and see how that works. You might have to play with this a little to try to get around the side effects you experience.

              You may be interested to know that Oculus is in the early stages of preparing a trial for the use of Microcyn to help prevent urinary tract infection. As I understand the trial will use Microcyn to spray the inside and outside of the catheter and the meatal area before catheterization.

              All the best,
              GJ

              Comment


                I have been dealing with a bug since late September, as some of you may have read on other threads, going through 5 rounds of antibiotics, including 5 days of IV Invanz with the bug always coming back. I decided to give Puracyn a try thanks to the insistence of GJNL and the advise of Millard and others. Two weeks ago I reluctantly instilled 10 cc of puracyn the first time, i had trouble with the technique and i could only keep it in for a minute. i then bought a 20 cc syringe and that night I kept it in for 5 minutes. Almost immediately my urine output was clean. I was taking nitrofurantoin as a prophylactic at the time. The second day I did 20cc twice. I am also taking D Mannose daily. After the immediate improvement I began thinking that our urine is by nature sterile, and The third day I did nor instill Puracyn, I sprayed the gel (I IC) liberally and then began spraying the whole cath liberally. That was two weeks ago tomorrow and my urine is still clean. The thought is to try to kill the bacteria before the catheter goes into my body. On friday, the dr. Ordered me to stop taking the nitro, today is four days without antibiotics and my urine is still clean by just spraying the catheter with puracyn. Now, i am drinking a lot of water and cath maybe 10 times a day, probably spraying 8 or 9 times a day. My question is, what are your thoughts about the idea, and does anyone have an opinion about spraying puracyn so many time on a catheter that is inserted so many times a day into my urethra/bladder?
                T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

                Comment


                  Originally posted by paramoto
                  I have been dealing with a bug since late September, as some of you may have read on other threads, going through 5 rounds of antibiotics, including 5 days of IV Invanz with the bug always coming back. I decided to give Puracyn a try thanks to the insistence (not sure I would call my suggestions "insistence" ) of GJNL and the advise of Millard and others. Two weeks ago I reluctantly instilled 10 cc of puracyn the first time, i had trouble with the technique and i could only keep it in for a minute. i then bought a 20 cc syringe and that night I kept it in for 5 minutes. Almost immediately my urine output was clean. I was taking nitrofurantoin as a prophylactic at the time. The second day I did 20cc twice. I am also taking D Mannose daily. After the immediate improvement I began thinking that our urine is by nature sterile, and The third day I did nor instill Puracyn, I sprayed the gel (I IC) liberally and then began spraying the whole cath liberally. That was two weeks ago tomorrow and my urine is still clean. The thought is to try to kill the bacteria before the catheter goes into my body. On friday, the dr. Ordered me to stop taking the nitro, today is four days without antibiotics and my urine is still clean by just spraying the catheter with puracyn. Now, i am drinking a lot of water and cath maybe 10 times a day, probably spraying 8 or 9 times a day. My question is, what are your thoughts about the idea, and does anyone have an opinion about spraying puracyn so many time on a catheter that is inserted so many times a day into my urethra/bladder?
                  Thanks for the complete account of your experience. It has been a little difficult to follow exactly what you have been doing with Puracyn on other threads. In my comment just above your post, I describe my understanding of the parameters of the Oculus trial that is currently being structured. Spraying the catheter before insertion is their focus.

                  I'm troubled by why you have to cath up to 10 times a day. The suggested routine for intermittent catheterization is drinking enough fluids to allow you to cath 4-6 times a day, with no more than 500cc per cath. Cathing 10 times a day is too many caths and that kind of frequency can cause a lot of irritation to your bladder and urethra. Irritation to the bladder and urethra can contribute to urinary tract infections. What is your output each time you cath?

                  I am glad to hear that your urine is looking better and that you are off prophylactic antibiotics. Hope you are feeling better.

                  All the best,
                  GJ

                  Comment


                    GJ, where did you read about the Oculus uti trials?

                    Comment


                      Along with Millard and others from Care Cure Community, I have been part of teleconferences with Oculus. Several of us have been consulted about our use of Vetericyn (Microcyn) and it is from this contact that some of us have an inkling into the structure of the trial Oculus is working on.

                      All the best,
                      GJ

                      Comment


                        Thanks. I'm impressed they're taking the community here's experiences seriously.

                        Comment


                          I lost my last post! I take 20 mg of oxybutynin xl per day and I have always been prone to accidents. Now that I have increased my water intake i may have two or three overflow accidents per day, so at work I cath every two hours or so, and still cannot avoid all accidents. My urologist told me that he preferred a bladder that voided at 500cc than one that was more relaxed and held much larger volumes. i am not sure about that, I think my bladder is constantly battling my sphincter. Today my output was dirty and smelly. I instilled 20cc for 7 minutes tonight in addition to spraying my catheter. It has since cleared up a lot, but that is usually the way it goes, cloudiness comes and goes. Btw, I meant the insistence thing in the kindest possible way, you are a great ambassador for this product. If it works as we think, these people will be indebted to you and a couple of others here. Thanks for your continued concern.
                          Originally posted by gjnl
                          Thanks for the complete account of your experience. It has been a little difficult to follow exactly what you have been doing with Puracyn on other threads. In my comment just above your post, I describe my understanding of the parameters of the Oculus trial that is currently being structured. Spraying the catheter before insertion is their focus. I'm troubled by why you have to cath up to 10 times a day. The suggested routine for intermittent catheterization is drinking enough fluids to allow you to cath 4-6 times a day, with no more than 500cc per cath. Cathing 10 times a day is too many caths and that kind of frequency can cause a lot of irritation to your bladder and urethra. Irritation to the bladder and urethra can contribute to urinary tract infections. What is your output each time you cath? I am glad to hear that your urine is looking better and that you are off prophylactic antibiotics. Hope you are feeling better. All the best, GJ
                          T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

                          Comment


                            I would like a copy of the urologist guideline Millard. Thanks.
                            T6 complete (or so I think), SCI since September 21, 2003

                            Comment


                              Can you try using 20cc Puracyn once a day, retained for 5-7 minutes for one week, in addition to spraying the catheter when you cath? Try to get a daily regimen going just as a test. Then make some judgements after the end of the trial. Did the urine stay clear all week? Did I have any cloudy urine during the week? Then try the same regimen for another week. Ask the same questions and evaluate what you want to do from there. Like some here, you may be able to instill Vetericyn once every other day and manage to keep urine clear.

                              All the best,
                              GJ

                              Comment


                                Thanks GJ for your response. I reduced the Vetericyn to 40ml at 1 flush (10 minutes) a day. Did this for 4 days. The urine got really stinky and more cloudy than usual. Today I did 4 flushes (1 flush every 4-5 hours) using 60ml of Vetericyn, leaving it in the bladder for 10 minutes. I am a little nervous, but I reasoned that before I used 60ml for 20 minutes twice a day, so the installation time combined is about the same just spread out more. Plus, leaving it in the bladder for 10 minutes rather than 20 minutes should avoid any problems we experienced before.

                                I read that Suzanne's husband did a flush every 3 hours. Does anybody know how much Vetericyn they used, how long it stayed in the bladder, and for how many days it was done?

                                Thanks.

                                Comment

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