Wound problem

[renee39]

hi ya'll'
I developed a serious infection in me abdomen this past March. The docs removed all the infection by cutting it out. D/T this I had an area the size of a football and approximately 2 inches deep. They also placed a feeding tube in. I was in the hospital for a month. They started treating the would by using a wound vac.(this system uses negative pressure and pulls all the drainage off the wound so it can heal)

To this day (May) I still have the wound vac in place. The dressing for this system is changed Monday,Wednesday and Friday's. On day 2 the odor from this wound is dreadful! My family can even smell it. And on weekends I cant go anywhere because everyone can smell it.

I need help with any suggestions on eliminating some of the smell. My doc prescribed 0.25% Azetic Acid wound wash. This is to cut down on the odor and any microbes that may be present. I cant find any info on this item.And the pharmacist cant either. Please help I really need some odor relief so I can have a normal life outside my home.

p.s. the vac will be on till at least July.

Hopefully all the information is clear enough for everyone to understand. If not post a response so I can explain more.

Renee39

[bob clark]

Hi Renee,

I've been trying to find a safe yet effective antiseptic to use in my my cathing procedure. There's an antiseptic called Microcyn that's available practically everywhere in the world, including our neighbors Canada and Mexico, but not here in the US. FDA foot dragging or whatever.

It's an antiseptic that kills bacteria but doesn't harm human tissue, especially fibroblasts, that are cells the body uses to heal itself with.

fibroblast: a connective-tissue cell of mesenchymal origin that secretes proteins and especially molecular collagen from which the extracellular fibrillar matrix of connective tissue forms.

One of the first things the doctors who started using Microcyn on severely infected burns and pressure sores noticed was the fast elimination of the putrid smell associated with wounds of this type.

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2005/0228/062.html

In early 2003 Oculus filed for approval with Mexico's Ministry of Health for Microcyn to be used as a disinfectant and an antiseptic for wounds. Dr. Andrés Gutiérrez, head of the cell therapy unit at the National Institute of Rehabilitation in Mexico City, was asked to test its safety and efficacy. "I was skeptical at first," he says. "Others have tried to do this before and have failed miserably."

But he quickly discovered that the solution killed spores, fungi and viruses. It eradicated bacillus bacteria in less than a minute compared with 15 minutes for alcohol, which doesn't even kill spores. Satisfied that Microcyn was effective and nontoxic, the institute tested the solution on patients with diabetic foot ulcers. "The first thing we noticed was that the odor from the wound faded away in 24 hours. This had never happened before," says Gutiérrez.
Doctors in Mexico are now using Microcyn on patients with varicose vein ulcers and on children with second- and third-degree burns. With other treatments the average stay for pediatric burn patients was 20 days. With Microcyn the length was cut in half, saving Mexican hospitals $18,000 per patient.

For 2.5 years I've been using hydrogen peroxide in my cathing procedure (and have been bacterially uncolonized and UTI-free I might add) because I couldn't get any Microcyn. A few weeks ago it was brought to my attention that Vetericyn, the veterinarian-grade of Microcyn, was available at local pet stores and online. So for the past couple of weeks I've been using Vetericyn as part of my cathing procedure and my urine is still perfect. I can't say for sure if it's the Vetericyn or my catheter that's dripping wet with hydrogen peroxide (I store my catheter in a bottle of HP) or my thorough handwashing regime or all of the above, but whatever the reason, the Vetericyn seems to be working fine. The downside is that Vetericyn costs 40 times what HP costs. $16.00 as opposed to $.40 for 8 ounces.

I figure if Vetericyn is good enough to use on million dollar race horses, it's good enough to use on this beat-up ol' wreck of a near-corpse!

Anyway, if you're desperate and can't find any other help you may want to consider using Vetericyn on your odoriferous wound. No guarantees but....

If you live close to Canada or Mexico, or know someone who does, they may sell Microcyn over-the-counter there (especially in Mexico) and you can obtain it this way.

An online store called California Veterinary Supply sells Vetericyn.



Just an idea....

Good luck Renee,

Bob.

[bob clark]

Hi again Renee,

I believe your doctor meant 0.25% Acetic Acid, not 0.25% Azetic Acid. Typo.

You can Google it using the term "Acetic Acid antiseptic" or just click HERE.

Acetic Acid

Acetic acid is frequently used in wounds as a 0.25-percent or 0.5-percent solution. It is bactericidal against many Gram-positive and Gram-negative organisms, especially Pseudomonas aeruginosa. No delay of reepithelization has been found in animal and human models.[52] Although one study found that acetic acid initially delayed reepithelization, after the eighth day, this effect did not persist. In the same study, it was not shown to influence tensile wound strength.[29] In two human uncontrolled studies, acetic acid was found to be beneficial in wounds infected with Pseudomonas aeruginosa.[83,84] In a study with patients with venous leg ulcers,[85] gauze dressings wetted with acetic acid were shown to effectively decrease the number of Staphylococcus aureus and Gram-negative rods. Pseudomonas was not reduced significantly.

Although several in-vitro studies found acetic acid to be cytotoxic,[31,86] the in-vivo studies do not confirm these findings. The authors believe that acetic acid can continue being used topically in contaminated wounds where an agent is needed in order to eliminate the chances of infection.

Take care,

Bob.

[lynnifer]

I make my own acetic acid solution by eye-balling it. A bit of white vinegar and some filtered water. It has kept my pseudomonas at bay as there's no evidence on the dressing. Pseudomonas has a sweet fruit-that's-off smell ... you would know it.

If a 'rotting' smell (sorry) I would guess it's staph and you need antibiotics like yesterday!

[bob clark]

I make my own acetic acid solution by eye-balling it. A bit of white vinegar and some filtered water. It has kept my pseudomonas at bay as there's no evidence on the dressing. Pseudomonas has a sweet fruit-that's-off smell ... you would know it.

If a 'rotting' smell (sorry) I would guess it's staph and you need antibiotics like yesterday!

Hi Lynnifer,

After reading your post, it made me think that something more important than "odor control" is needed for Renee's large, festering wound. Like getting to the cause of the odor (infection) and treating it with antibiotics. Although a topical antiseptic, that doesn't interfere with fibroblast formation, may also be helpful in tackling the infection. I wouldn't be too worried about having a "normal life outside my home" until I got this severe infection under control. Yikes!

Are you still using Microcyn or have you given up on it?

I just read a post by Nurse KLD that claimed, in an unpublished study, pseudomonas thrives on vinegar.

We found that pseudomonas LOVED vinegar and actually grew more when it was used for cleaning.

/forum/showthread.php?p=849378#post849378#21

Your experience/observation and Nurse KLD's unpublished study seem to be at odds with each other. I don't know... is it ever "black or white"!?

--------------------

Hi Renee,

Are you on antibiotics? Oral, IM or IV? If this large area is still infected and to the degree of it reeking to high-heavens, maybe you should still be in the hospital until they get it under control. Not that I have very much faith in hospitals or their cleanliness, given the high rate of nosocomial infections, but at least be under closer medical observation, perhaps at home.

It doesn't seem as though your doctor is very concerned about the underlying cause of the odor.

Good luck to the both of you.

Bob.

[SCI-Nurse]

Hi,

The wwound vac does seem to produce an odor as it is sucking up all the draiange, however, I would make sure you are checked for an infection and if so that it is treated properly.

AAD

[Back Pain]

Maggot Therapy

In reply to renee39 ‘s post /forum/showthread.php?t=100758
Sounds like Maggot Therapy is what you need
See Maggot Therapy Project at

http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/som/patholo...an/home_pg.htm
Contact info:
Ronald A. Sherman, MD, MSc, DTM&H
Assistant Researcher,
Dept of PathologyRoom D-440,
Medical Sciences Building; ZOT Code 4800
University of CaliforniaIrvine, CA 92697-4800
Phone: (949) 824-5829
FAX: (949) 824-1098
e-mail: RSherman@uci.edu

[Obieone]

Hi Renee !
My husband had a wound in the same area and it took a long time to heal I'm sorry to say.... well over a year ... but it did heal. We used the Vac for awhile at first ... its good for kick starting the healing but if there is infection present it shouldn't be used until that's dealt with.
His wound was dressed using a packing .... I'm trying to remember ... it was a large cavity so it started out with a rope type and then switched to Aquacel as it shrank. Sterile water with vinegar to flush it with and I seem to remember soaking the rope packing with some sort of solution .... I'll try and get the name of it for you. Once you get rid of the infection healing will really take off .

A little piece of info for you ..... the Vac sucks the protein out of a person so be sure and increase your protein intake significantly any way you can. Shakes, eggs whatever .... if you do a search in this forum using key words like "wound healing" you'll get tons of other discussions on the subject it doesn't matter if they reference pressure sores per se because the protocol is pretty much the same. I wish you all the best.

Obieone

[lynnifer]

Bob - yes I gave up on Microcyn as the bone infection got worse.

I'm surprised that pseudomonas thrive on vinegar ... I'm going to have to do some reading I guess! Since I've been using it, I haven't seen any evidence of P on my dressings.

[JOMO76]

Dakins

Have U Tried Dakins Solution 0.25%? That Is Very Effective In Controlling Odor. I Work In Wound Care In An Inpatient Hospital, And We Use Dakins To Control Odor And Infection.

[knowthill]

I make my own acetic acid solution by eye-balling it. A bit of white vinegar and some filtered water. It has kept my pseudomonas at bay as there's no evidence on the dressing. Pseudomonas has a sweet fruit-that's-off smell ... you would know it.

If a 'rotting' smell (sorry) I would guess it's staph and you need antibiotics like yesterday!

You are correct white vinegar is a 5% acetic acid this is the same solution my urologist and I found and is what I use too.


I had a wound pump put on my side when my Baclofen pump worked its way out of my body. It took about 9 weeks before I got rid of the vac and there was an order that caused me to stay home too. All I can say it is better then being in a confinement room in the hospital. Hang in there and keep us posted.

The worst part of this ordeal for me any way was getting depressed. I am not a psychologist but do know when I feel like crap and want to just say screw it. Places like this have got me out of bed and back to doing something and that is the first step back.

[renee39]

Thank you all for the exellent advice!!! I did go home with anitbiotics for 14 days. The wound vac has done a great job. However, this last weekend I was off it for 3days, and had more healing just in those 3 days. So my nurse and I, againist docs knowledge we are going to leave vac off on weekends. As far as the protien intake, I am a gastric by-pass pt of 4 years ago, my protien intake has to be high anyway. (After 4 years I successfully have lost 175 lbs. My husband feels all the problems are related to this surgery.)
Anyway, You all have been great for listening to my problem and taking time to reply and do research.

Renee39

[ekam]

You say Microcyn is available in Canada - where? I live in Toronto, have looked everywhere for it, and nobody seems to have heard of it.

[lynnifer]

http://store.oculusis.com/CategoryGr...x?CategoryId=5

Did you try above?

A rep just sent me a couple of boxes of the stuff because it was close to its due date. I'm sorry that I don't have his name or address anymore.