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**Wise Young** · 9 Jul 2005, 1:27 PM

Okay, based on the comments so far, I am changing the font sizes from 10 to 12 for the main body text. This may result in an increase in font size for everybody. It does not change the text size for me on my browser. Can people who find that the size is too small tell me whether it changes the text size? I can go to 11 points.

Note, there is another font size control that affects text size within tags. I don't want to change that until it is clear that the first change does not make any difference.

Wise.

**Jim** · 9 Jul 2005, 1:38 PM

12 was kinda big

**Wise Young** · 9 Jul 2005, 1:41 PM

Jim, let's see if if helps the people who find that it is too small. I can go to 11, if necessary.

I just realized that you might have responded to an inadvertent change of the font size within tags change that I had made which did increase the font size for me on all the posts and it was very large. I returned that back to default values.

I hope that this change solves the problem for people who think that the font size is too small.

Wise.

**Davey** · 9 Jul 2005, 2:54 PM

Originally posted by Wise Young

Okay, based on the comments so far, I am changing the font sizes from 10 to 12 for the main body text.

Wow! That's an interesting read of a poll when 75% said the font was just right. As far as 12pt --

-- CareCure had finally started to look nice

.

**Wise Young** · 9 Jul 2005, 3:08 PM

Originally posted by Davey

Wow! That's an interesting read of a poll when 75% said the font was just right. As far as 12pt --

-- CareCure had finally started to look nice

.

Davey, can you tell me what change you see?

I also just reduced the size of the Username from 14 to 12 because it looked very big on my browser. Does it look too small now?

Wise.

**Wise Young** · 9 Jul 2005, 3:20 PM

Originally posted by Scott Pruett

I vote to just keep it. I like this size much better, as do most folks who voted so far. If users are *that* concerned, they should change their browser settings to accomodate other sites they view as well.

Wise, another thing to consider: changing all the font values from points (pt) to pixels (px) will create uniform sizes regardless of the browser used.

Scott,

There are cascading style sheets, as well as font tags associated with each module (there are dozens). I wanted to change one variable at a time and see what people think. For example, I made one change, i.e. the body text from 10pt to 12pt. It did not seem to change anything on the display of the site on four different browser (safari, firefox, mozilla, internet explorer) but I don't know if this is the case for others.

Wise.

**Davey** · 9 Jul 2005, 3:28 PM

Originally posted by Wise Young

Davey, can you tell me what change you see? Wise.

The font seems to be bigger in some areas. The most telling is in the table that holds all the topics. There seems to be extra white space than I noticed before because the moderator names, last post, etc. don't really fit nicely in the column anymore so it makes the row a higher than it needs to be.

After looking at the HTML source though, I may just be seeing things that I didn't notice before

. Since you only changed the main <body> font and the fonts in <td>'s are still 10pt I shouldn't have seen any difference. I may just be looking more closely since all of this discussion of fonts has started. I really like the new look and how everything works now -- a lot more than the old site. I'm just hoping it stays looking as good as it does, but still being able to change based upon a user's needs. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused

...

**Wise Young** · 9 Jul 2005, 3:38 PM

Originally posted by Davey

The font seems to be bigger in some areas. The most telling is in the table that holds all the topics. There seems to be extra white space than I noticed before because the moderator names, last post, etc. don't really fit nicely in the column anymore so it makes the row a higher than it needs to be.

After looking at the HTML source though, I may just be seeing things that I didn't notice before

. Since you only changed the main <body> font and the fonts in <td>'s are still 10pt I shouldn't have seen any difference. I may just be looking more closely since all of this discussion of fonts has started. I really like the new look and how everything works now -- a lot more than the old site. I'm just hoping it stays looking as good as it does, but still being able to change based upon a user's needs. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused

...

Thanks. I can always change it back. It seems to be okay for me, however. Next time, I shall make a snapshot of the different pages so that I can really compare the before and after. Let me wait just a while so that the people who thought the font was too small have a chance to weigh in. If that doesn't do the trick, I can switch it back.

Wise.

**-scott-** · 9 Jul 2005, 3:52 PM

Originally posted by Wise Young

There are cascading style sheets, as well as font tags associated with each module (there are dozens). I wanted to change one variable at a time and see what people think. For example, I made one change, i.e. the body text from 10pt to 12pt. It did not seem to change anything on the display of the site on four different browser (safari, firefox, mozilla, internet explorer) but I don't know if this is the case for others.

Wise, IMO you're changing the wrong variable. 10pt is different than 10px.

Points (pt) are not a size unit for on-screen use. They are used for print stylesheets, and often cause problems w/ web publishing. Pixels (px) are the only reliable absolute unit on-screen.

Mac's default ppi (points per inch) is 72, wheras PC's is 96. This is why some fonts look smaller on PCs. PCs cram more "points" in per inch.

Make sense?

**McDuff** · 9 Jul 2005, 5:18 PM

Wise, I do not see any difference in the font after your change.

**Davey** · 9 Jul 2005, 5:27 PM

Originally posted by Scott Pruett

Wise, IMO you're changing the wrong variable. 10pt is different than 10px.

Points (pt) are not a size unit for on-screen use. They are used for print stylesheets, and often cause problems w/ web publishing. Pixels (px) are the only reliable absolute unit on-screen.

Mac's default ppi (points per inch) is 72, wheras PC's is 96. This is why some fonts look smaller on PCs. PCs cram more "points" in per inch.

Make sense?

Hi Scott,

Just wanted to clear a few things up. You're absolutely correct that Wise is changing the wrong variable to obtain the functionality he's looking for -- the ability for a user to change the font to whatever he/she needs. Neither points or pixels will accomplish this. As I've said before, he will need to use a different type of font size specification in his stylesheet -- one using percentages or x-small, small, etc specifications. Only then will someone be able to use the Text Size setting in IE to set the font to what is needed. I'm sure he's just trying to keep from changing the many font settings thoughout the many stylesheets that are being used by vBulletin

.

As far as the points vs. pixels issue ... the ppi that is used on the Mac and PC is "pixels per (logical) inch" -- defaults to 72 for the Mac and 96 for the PC. A point is always 1/72 of an inch so a font that's 72 points will equal an inch. That would translate to 72 pixels on a Mac and 96 pixels on a PC. The fonts would be 33% larger on a PC because they are made up of more pixels for each inch on the PC. You're also absolutely correct that if this web site didn't need the ability to support the Text Size feature the style sheets should always be using pixels instead of points for consistency between Macs and PCs.

**Kaprikorn1** · 10 Jul 2005, 1:13 AM

Originally posted by Scott Pruett

I vote to just keep it. I like this size much better, as do most folks who voted so far. If users are *that* concerned, they should change their browser settings to accomodate other sites they view as well.

Wise, another thing to consider: changing all the font values from points (pt) to pixels (px) will create uniform sizes regardless of the browser used.

Scott...I realize that you "like" the size of the font but the tinyness of it actually impedes others ability to read the forums or at least read them for long without getting a headache. Granted "most people" (68%) like it (is it really the size of the font or just the new layout and "style" they are replying about?) but do we just disregard the 25% of members who think it is too small?

It would be nice if we could all have our own personal size but I guess that ain't possible.

Kap

**Kaprikorn1** · 10 Jul 2005, 1:52 AM

Originally posted by McDuff

Wise,

I did not mean IE has no preferences, just that it is now broken up.
-Under the View menu there are 5 text size options. Mine is currently set to "Larger". These currently have no impact on CC.

-Under Tools->Internet Options->General Tab
>There is a Font selection for sites that Do Not specify font style, mine is set to Times New Roman and Courier
>The Accessibility button allows me to Ignore site specific items, one being font size.

If I click Ignore Font Size, then the CC font size immediately gets bigger, which makes sense as my settings are for Larger fonts. Then if I go to the View menu and change the Text Size options, I can change the font size of posts on CC to my hearts content.

McDuff...YOU ARE THE MAN!!! I followed your directions and I can now see it in my personal default font (arial 12pt). Plus...(I don't know why) but when I click the larger button under view>font size>larger...it makes it bold.....BIG, BLACK and BOLD...gotta love it. Thanks, bud, now I can read cc even with tired eyes.

Kap

**McDuff** · 10 Jul 2005, 11:56 AM

Glad it works out for ya Kap.

Just so everyone knows, this is still a "workaround", not the real solution. But I guess it will have to do.

Since my setting of text to "Larger" changes the font size for all other websites WITHOUT clicking "ignore font sizes on website", I still think there is a better solution that is CC based rather than each person having to apply the workaround. I will have to click this on and off when visiting CC as I do not like what it does to other websites. Since there are usually different font sizes in differing portions of a website, setting a "Larger" view size does a "relative" growth of each. When you set "ignore" it changes all fonts to one size. Alters the look of websites.

**-scott-** · 10 Jul 2005, 12:12 PM

Davey, thanks for adding those points. Using relative values such as x-small, small, large, x-large, etc etc is desireable, yes, but requires more planning than just adjusting a given size by pixel height. Wise/Jeff, just understand that if this route is considered, a base size needs to be defined prior to use..

Kap, chill. I expect that CareCure users *do* visit other websites. If font size is an issue, the end user needs to adjust his or her browser settings to accomodate web use "everywhere." Wouldn't you agree?

Most browsers allow you to increase your font size easily from the view menu, the keyboard or even the mouse simply by selecting the command to increase or decrease font size.

In Windows Internet Explorer, use the View - Text Size menu.
In Macintosh Internet Explorer and Netscape 6 and 7, use the View - Text Zoom menu.
In Firefox and other Mozilla browsers, use the View - Increase Text Size option.
In Safari, use the View - Make Text Bigger option.
In Opera, use the Zoom selector.

Opera actually scales the entire web page - fonts, images and all. It's a pretty good browser for accessibility.

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