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    #16
    Ashleigh, Good for you and God Bless you!!!

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      #17
      Originally posted by Jeff:

      I think hurt people do hurt people. When they're hurt it props them up to hurt someone else. Temporarily, at least. A documented part of human nature.
      ...
      "People need love the most when they deserve it the least."
      I don't really think lashing out at people props people up. I think it relieves a stressor. But done often enough becomes part of personality. Whenever challenged on something they explode, over react and keep the other person at a distance.

      It works for some people, but they still pay the price because the internal stress can become external. Take acne in adolescents ... the internal stress manifests itself into something you can identify and focus on.

      So, add the internet. People are basically nameless and faceless text messages. So easy to rip into these people you never see. I've watched online groups disintegrate before. The "B" word comes up and then the flames start. I don't think that will happen here at our present "hurting" level because we have too much in common. Maybe first hand, maybe a friend has a problem addressed on CureCare. You just can't burn this bridge. You can make it hard for other to stomach. I think you either ignore these posts or you read them to see how they have further evolved. After so much, I tend to ignore certain posts.

      This gets me into trouble. I tend to do this in real life too. People yammer and yammer and pretty soon its like a bee buzzing around. A nuisance noise and I have the unique male ability to NOT hear a single thing said to me. This was just pointed out to me 5 minutes ago. LOL

      Its not funny.

      What Marco said about a person functioning well in public and then exploding in private ... it is a shame that we save our outbursts for those people we love and really have a vested interest in keeping. Family is not disposable. I think thats why we save the bad stuff for family. Outbursts in public are not allowed. Even a negative outlook is a job killer. I was once told, "sarcasim is akin to social farting. You can get away with it once or twice, but people don't like it and it tends to drive people away."

      In a class I once took it was said marraige is not 50/50. You should expect 60/40 at best. Try to give more than you get. This requires a lot of patience.

      So, getting back to "hurt people hurt people" we've been hurting people for a few thousand years now. The fact that daily pressures have grown even for able bodied people, it is not hard to see how those of us SCI people have one more stressor added to 21st century life.

      My only advice is to take a breath before posting. I've started to post before ... and not even going to flame a post, but I think, "This just does not help anything." And I delete it before posting. I'm sure bunches of people do the same.

      It's 60/40 people! (if you are lucky)


      "People need love the most when they deserve it the least."

      Yes, and it's a strange thing to get used to and accept.

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        #18
        hurt people do hurt people in all aspects of life. look at child molesters, all child molesters were abused themselves. however with a lot of therapy and counciling the cycle can stop and not every molested child will themselves become a child molester.
        cauda equina

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          #19
          Metro, excellent point. It becomes a vicious cycle in the realm of abuse, all kinds. It's when people recognize the pain for what it is and then determine to take steps to heal it that the "madness" can stop. However, it takes some major stones to admit it and then do something about it.

          As far as SCI, there's also a flip-side. Often the SCI person, already dealing with their own loss and pain, will become the victim of a "loved one's" abuse, ie pain. We read these horror stories of the verbal, emotional, physical and, yes, even sexual abuse, along with neglect, even abandonment of the SCI person. Sometimes it's the SOs of the SCI who can't deal with the loss/change in their lives and take it out on them.

          Mingo, what a great post. Love the 60/40 rule. Plenty of times I've wished I'd taken the deep breath, counted to 10, or changed my scenery for a moment before hitting that Post Now button.

          Maybe Jeff can set me up with a Post in 10 Minutes button instead. [img]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

          ~ Joy to the world, all the boys and girls. Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Joy to you and me. ~ Three Dog Night

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            #20
            Metro, I understand your point about the "cycle" of abuse, but your example and/or comparison of child molestors to SCI is very inappropriate.

            An SCI person will experience hurt and pain, some deal with it and eventually function emotionally well, while others may have more difficulty due to a mirad of factors- from insufficient supports to poor health and physical pain to financial strain, and so on. The inability of a person with an SCI to deal with these issues in an appropriate and productive way is very different from a child molestor, who is a predator and seeks to harm innocent children for personal gratification/gain.

            There is no necessary "cycle of abuse" due to SCI, though there may have been some abuse precipitating an SCI, thus making the situaton and environment worse for those involved. SCI may cause some pain to all involved, but it does not cause abuse, or rather, the SCI person does not inflict abuse and create a "cycle of abuse" due to any personal pain experienced from just the sci.

            A child molestor may have suffered from abuse/molestation themselves, which may have contributed to their engaging in same/similar (learned) behaviors towards others (children), but this is not always the case. There are many child molestors who have not been molested themselves and their molestation of children are not necessarily some acting out of personal "pain". Counseling and therapy will not change many of these molestors (as many themselves attest to as confirmed by studies), and there are many many who simply find perverse satisfaction from a variety of sexual and abusive acts against children- through child porn, child sex trade, child prostitution, etc.

            Anyway, this topic seems to be veering way off course (from whatever it was supposed to be to begin with, though my impression -not analysis- is that it was more a projection of personal issues). On second thought, it is sadly actually staying on course.

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              #21
              From what Ive taken of this post is that hurt people or people with spinal cord injuries like to hurt others. If its verbally or what ever on here. I see people that will never be at ease with there life, they are mad, First you have to get over it, theres nothing you can do to change it.

              For someone to get on a public internet like this and tell about their lovelife or anything personal should be kept off. then you wonder why people get there feelings hurt!

              Comment


                #22
                Hey chick. I don't see where Metro is comparing child molesters to SCI. My impression is he's saying they're hurting people too. I've never seen a "cycle of abuse" with SCI people either. You're absolutely correct in saying they are not the same.

                ~ Joy to the world, all the boys and girls. Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Joy to you and me. ~ Three Dog Night

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                  #23
                  Tburst, don't think anyone has said that SCI people LIKE to hurt others. Sadism I haven't seen around here. Masochism, narcissism, yes--just speaking for MYSELF! [img]/forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

                  ~ Joy to the world, all the boys and girls. Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Joy to you and me. ~ Three Dog Night

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                    #24
                    wasn't comparing sci to child abusers

                    wasn't my intent.. just hurt people that hurt other people ..simple as that
                    just from talking to people that were familiar with sexual child abusers in prison, they said that all ( and i dint know if its 100% true) child abusers were abused themselves as children .
                    nothing to do with sci, they were hurt emotionally and physically when young
                    cauda equina

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by tburst:

                      From what Ive taken of this post is that hurt people or people with spinal cord injuries like to hurt others. If its verbally or what ever on here. I see people that will never be at ease with there life, they are mad, First you have to get over it, theres nothing you can do to change it.

                      For someone to get on a public internet like this and tell about their lovelife or anything personal should be kept off. then you wonder why people get there feelings hurt!
                      It's a little harsh to say that if you post anything about yourself you basically deserve what you get .... thanks tburst, that really feels good to someone like me who just posted below that I got my feelings hurt here! Geez!

                      Have you not ever reached out to others? Made a friend on the internet - even posted something about yourself publicly? It's worth it, even if you get hurt sometimes. Open yourself up, I have made TREMENDOUS friendships via the public internet, and I'll not be ashamed of saying when I get my feelings hurt.

                      I disagree completely, there is a whole board here for relationships & sexuality .... nothing personal should be posted here?

                      Give me a break tburst.

                      Zilla <--- who is a little miffed at your post, yes

                      Zillazangel, I am an able bodied significant other of a C4/5 quadriplegic man
                      Wife of Chad (C4/5 since 1988), mom of a great teenager

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                        #26
                        Martha, I'm having trouble starting a PT with you - will you send me one I can reply to? Thanks. (sorry to everyone else to clutter up the thread)

                        Zillazangel, I am an able bodied significant other of a C4/5 quadriplegic man
                        Wife of Chad (C4/5 since 1988), mom of a great teenager

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I stumbled across this thread and a incredible book came to mind.

                          The Mastery of Love by Don Miguel Ruiz explains why we are programmed hurt others.

                          Check it out.



                          "In my travels all around the world, I have come to realize that what distinguishes one child from another is not ability but access; access to opportunity, access to love". -Lauryn Hill

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                            #28
                            JLB, thanks so much. I especially appreciated this passage:

                            ''There are two kinds of humans - the humans that are like flies, and the humans that are like bees. Bees Love honey. Flies like poo.'' And I asked her, ''What kind of human being are you.'' She said, ''I'm like honey.'' I said, ''If you behave like honey, the bees will come to you. If you behave like poo the files will come to you.'' And she said, ''Now I've got it - okay - it's so simple - I need to become honey. And if I become honey, a bee who only Loves honey will come to me.'' And I said, ''Honey is Love, and poo is all that emotional poison. Who wants that? Only flies.''

                            So you have a man that you love, and you say, ''Ah, honey, I love you so much, take my poo!'' That's what we do when we send our jealousy, envy, or anger to the one that we love. Why in the world would we want to give that to someone that we love?

                            Or what if someone says that they love us, and they project envy or jealousy or self-righteousness, or try to control the way we walk or the way we talk - wow, this is a fly, really.

                            We have to be so clear with what we want. Then the perfect match is honey and a bee. If we have awareness we can see that clearly. But without awareness there is no way we can see that. We can behave like poo or we can behave like honey. With this choice, everything can change.


                            The Mastery of Love

                            ~ Joy to the world, all the boys and girls. Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Joy to you and me. ~ Three Dog Night

                            [This message was edited by marcomo on 09-10-04 at 08:53 PM.]

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                              #29
                              A little more about anger and outburts. While Scott and I were in counseling at Shepherd, we hit a point where we were both visibly upset, voices raised, angry/hurtful words being exchanged. The therapist listened quietly and then said something that shocked us both:

                              "Wow, you two must love each other very much. There's a lot of passion here."

                              Boy, did that shut us up, because we SURE weren't feeling love or "passion" at that point. However, he pointed out that anger is passion too, that often the intensity of our anger at someone is mirrored by the intensity of our love for that person. So when someone we truly love or care about hurts/angers us, the RAGE we exhibit--often investing time and energy expressing that rage--actually reflects how much we care.

                              Of course trying to explain this principle to someone blasting you with their words will often incite more of their wrath. Don't bother. You will be blamed for everything.

                              This can also happen female to female, but obviously for different reasons, and it will be expressed USUALLY less obviously.

                              ~ Joy to the world, all the boys and girls. Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea. Joy to you and me. ~ Three Dog Night

                              [This message was edited by marcomo on 09-11-04 at 12:03 PM.]

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                                #30
                                Wow, you two must love each other very much. There's a lot of passion here."

                                Boy, did that shut us up, because we SURE weren't feeling love or "passion" at that point. However, he pointed out that anger is passion too, that often the intensity of our anger at someone is mirrored by the intensity of our love for that person. So when someone we truly love or care about hurts/angers us, the RAGE we exhibit--often investing time and energy expressing that rage--actually reflects how much we care.
                                Gee, I never thought of it that way, but it's spooky to think that Chris Chappel has passion for me. [img]/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif[/img]

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